5 questions about equal pay at Allianz

1. If you want to comply with the new EU law as an insurer, the vacancy text must contain a salary indication. Has Allianz already adjusted the vacancy texts? If so, in what areas?

"We add the salary range to almost all vacancies. However, we do not necessarily do this from a transparency point of view, but mainly from a recruitment point of view. We wanted to investigate whether this had an effect on the intake, but this turned out not to make a significant difference. However, a general strategy is being developed from the head office on how we can best deal with this."

2. To what extent will interviews/procedures be adapted?

"I still have to make an action plan for that, but you have to think about a gender-diverse candidate pool but also about using both male and female interviewers at every interview. However, this year we are participating in the so-called Edge certification for the third time. This is a global certification institute in the field of diversity, inclusion and gender equality. It is a biennial assessment in which you can score at three levels. The first level is 'assess', which you actually get when you participate. A lot is asked of you in terms of providing data and insight into your policy documents and as an insurer you indicate that you give urgency to these topics. We are trying to reach level two, 'move', this year. At this level, you already have to score above average in various areas, such as recruitment processes, promotion policy and development opportunities for women after returning from pregnancy and therefore also equal pay. We also conduct a survey among the staff to investigate how employees experience this. If you make it to the third level, 'lead', you are really the best boy in the class. You then score above average in all tested areas of attention. I will also use the action points that we get back from this assessment to comply with the EU directive. So actually, this is a kind of dress rehearsal for us."

Gender equality is widely addressed at Allianz. For example, around Father's and Mother's Day, Jacqueline draws attention to the difference in taking leave around the birth of a child. Women almost always take the entire leave, while men hardly do this. She also wants to introduce bias training, in which (new) managers become aware of unconscious biases that can play a role in job interviews.

The reward & performance specialist definitely recommends the Edge program for other insurers. "You create awareness about how many fronts gender inequality can take place on. For example, there may be inequality in terms of the take-up rate for leave around the birth of a child and it may be that the mentors in your company are for the most part men. It is also an eye-opener in recruitment, for example, that you invite an equal number of men and women for an interview and that both a man and a woman are present at the interview. At first, when I thought of gender inequality, I mainly thought of the difference in salary and too few women at the top, but I think it's a revelation that so much can also go wrong in the 'soft' sides around it."

Finally, she emphasises that it is important to invite an internal and an external candidate for each vacancy. "In our middle management, there are more men than women and an internal candidate for a higher position is therefore more often a man than a woman. It is of course a dilemma; Are you going for gender balance or for internal mobility?"

3. In the webinar , you indicate that it is sometimes difficult to have the discussion about equal pay with management. What are the causes of this? What would make it easier? Do you have any tips for other insurers?

"I think it is sometimes sensitive because it also exposes that a mistake has been made. It is often difficult for managers to admit this. It is important to investigate whether there is a justified pay gap or an unjustified pay gap. We deliberately look at salaries within the same business unit, because salaries within sales, for example, can also fluctuate due to the state of affairs in the market. Experience can also 'justify' a higher or lower salary. There are a number of elements that you can consider. We first make a black-and-white analysis and then zoom in on that person with HR and management and investigate whether there are valid reasons why there is a salary difference. Instinctively, a manager can say: 'John is doing better than Marie', but sometimes it turns out that this manager has not rated John better than Marie. It is important to investigate whether there is really a difference or whether it is mainly a matter of a gut feeling."

According to Jacqueline, this conversation is becoming more and more mature and it helps enormously that management is paying more and more attention to the subject. "It is included in KPIs and reported on. I notice less and less resistance to this subject."

Her advice to other insurers is to (continue to) investigate where the difference actually comes from. "This makes it more objective and this makes the conversation easier and less negotiable. If you can't explain the salary difference, then it's unjustified and there is automatically less room for emotional arguments that don't make sense."

4. How can HR employees best deal with equal pay?

"It is important to weave equal pay as 'DNA' into the entire cycle. Addressing (possible) bias is essential here. Another important aspect is to stay focused on who is given the responsibility to decide how, for example, crucial projects are allocated. Are the project managers both men and women? Do we have processes that regulate these kinds of internal decisions? Is there sufficient equality between men and women? Such things are important to guarantee equal opportunities for promotion at a later stage, for example."

5. In the webinar, you state that there is often reluctance to communicate with female employees when there is an unlawful salary difference. "You will receive an extra 400 euros in connection with your performance," it is then said, instead of communicating that there is an unfair difference in salary. How could this be improved?

"Now that we are increasingly transparent about the analyses we perform, I assume that the conversation will become easier and that managers will also dare to refer more to this equal pay analysis. Managers are often afraid that it says something about themselves and it is important to make it less personal. The manager is not the only one responsible for an unjustified salary difference. Things can already go wrong during recruitment or within a PhD programme. So make it broader to make it less personal."

According to Jacqueline, the new legislation will certainly help with this; Insurers need to become much more transparent. "I now also notice within Allianz that there is a positive response when I tell them what we do in the field of equal pay. In short, communicate about it as an insurer!"

According to her, coming out is essential. For example, how many women may have left because they felt it was not fair, how many employees can you retain as an insurer as a result? Think about that, she emphasises. "By this I mean how many women may have left because they felt it wasn't fair but didn't talk about it. If we communicate more about what we do around equal pay , it immediately feels much more honest and the conversation will hopefully also be easier from the side of the employees instead of them starting from an unfair feeling without having verified this."

Finally, the reward & performance specialist says he is proud of Allianz. "For me, it is the first company in the fifteen or twenty years that I have been working in HR, where there is so much attention for equal pay . I really like it and I get more and more space to do this. I also see it as 'internal promotion' of HR. It's something positive."

She is therefore optimistic about the future. "For example, I hope that it will become more and more normal for men to take (more) paternity leave and work part-time. Because steps must also be taken on the 'men's side' to promote equality."